Coolness unit for radiators
I just think how SaltX can be used for home or business .... I have got idea what about unit which will work with traditional gas heat boiler and existing pipes to make coolness in summer time.
There can be one central unit or several units which can be assembled before radiator. Once in summer you need coldness just run your gas boiler to charge SaltX for a while and and then will release coldness for hours ....
And in winter SaltX can be used as well for heating as it has better efficiency but the coldness must be released outside, will it work?
Yeh there is cold and heat ... For applications where coldness is needed ...
For me the idea of using second battery a put the undesired heat into second battery to get some improvement of efficiency, or even make system to run continuously ... So for me it looks fine, but it looks it is very basic idea..
Your view is that it is not much good idea to use two batteries and instead you recommend to try find other ways of cooling ... , I think it is good idea.. I feel I'm stuck on idea of two batteries..
Just want to ask some question about two battery system for better understanding ...
You mentioned that if the heat is influencing reactor during the discharge, the result is no coldness on condenser side ... ?
And also you have mentioned there will be lower temperature heat from reactor and charging second battery will be complicated …. I understand this theoretically.. it has to be tested and trying to find right salt, right configuration … ?
Are there more issues with this concept?
I would like to start thinking about other options … you have mentioned concept of water distillation … so will see.
Sending picture of design with two batteries for small cooling units to your email. I can not attach here today…
Hi @daniel! Thank you very much for the professional designs. What you drew can be made and it would work but the efficiency would be very questionable. Here are a few points:
- Moving parts can break down. Since you seem to be using coolant, why don't you just make pipe connections in a way where you can switch the coolant circulations with simpler valves and switches instead of moving the batteries? In this way, you don't even need the batteries to touch each other.
- What are you going to do with the heat from the second battery? The heat will not be enough to charge the first battery so you have to do something with it.
Let me know your thoughts! I think you are on a good way, but you need to refine the idea and simplify the concept!
This idea intrigues me, as it seems similar to a lot of applications for cooling. In general, could the excess heat generated simply be dumped outside using an air to coolant heat exchanger with a fan? This would be slightly wasteful, but not far from how a standard AC unit works, for instance. Not sure if this would be lower energy consumption than traditional heat pump or AC cooling?
Instead of running a boiler, could you not use a solar collector to charge the cooling system, design the system to bias as much as possible to cooling, and dump excess heat outside as above?
I'm just thinking about all the available solar energy on days when you really need maximum cooling. There has to be a way to harness all that energy, and convert it to effective cooling, even if you need to collect more solar energy than you can harness for cooling, the sun is free...
(if this is discussed elsewhere in depth, let me know. Don't mean to hijack a thread, and I've barely started to look around the forum. Thanks.)
Let me things make a bit clearer...
Idea of products, e.g. some simple cooling unit that will use excessive heat to second battery and then to first... and not release heat to room.,
Questions that I'm going to ask will help me understand how Saltx system can/can't work. So I'm not convinced about this design and advocating it.
Me first idea about the ("male-female") design of reactor/condenser was that the system will be charged with electricity with some simple heat elements (for this moment forgot all pipes in picture, they are wrong) to keep system design simple as possible.
And I want to avoid the effect that coldness will not start, when heat does not go away from reactor. (You have mentioned this in other post, did I got it right? )
When the second battery will be not able to charge first battery again, of course the idea is loosing the point.... Can at least the second battery somehow charge partly first battery?
If I use design from picture (male-female) and battery will be without moving part and R/C will be permanently plugged in to each other, what will happened with heat from reactor 2, will reactor 1 take low temperature? Will it cool down reactor 2 at least and coldness will happened? Or reaction will not take place and coolness effect will not start?
Talking about cooling using the sun - SaltX has a product called SunCool. It's a solar collector that generates heating and cooling (about 2/3 heating and 1/3 cooling of all the energy absorbed). Check it out - http://saltxtechnology.com/applications/suncool
Talking about using two batteries - I don't think the system will be nearly as efficient as you would need to make it marketable. As I mentioned - we are working on a device that uses SaltX technology for cooling from within the company. @daniel, if you want to visit us and learn more about how we are solving this challenge - feel free to come or even better - join our hackathon on August 31 to September 2.
If you insist on this idea - I suggest using a heat pump after the second battery to generate higher temperature from the second battery heat so you could charge the first battery again. If you plan to use this solution - please calculate the efficiencies. This should be the next task.
I'm very sorry I misunderstand the efficiency when I read about Suncool ... I though that the system can produce from each kWh of electricity 10.6 kWh of cooling. But I miss the point that this is true when there is solar collector. It is right now ?
So if I charge battery just with e.g.electricity for example 1kw the system will produce approx. 0.66kW of heat and 0.33 kWatt of coldness? And with additional imputs, water pumps and improvements there is possibility to get better efficiency. Actually you have mentioned that system is capable to absorb energy from environment. So the system will produce apprx. 1.5x more heat ....
Definitely I'll move on with heat pump...
You can make up to 1.4x energy theoretically. That is the maximum output for heating and cooling. Usually the added energy comes from whatever you are cooling. This means that if you charge the salt with 1kWh of electricity or any other type of heat, you can get 0.4kWh of cooling and 1kWh of heating. The 0.4kWh of cooling will absorb that energy from the coolant or air and transfer it to the reactor (heating).
However, the heating you get back will be lower temperature than you put in because of the inefficiencies.
With solar collector - whatever you get from the sun (usually about 6-8kWh per day) you get 1/3 back as cooling and 2/3 back as heating.
" This means that if you charge the salt with 1kWh of electricity or any other type of heat, you can get 0.4kWh of cooling and 1kWh of heating. " - this is clear to me
"The 0.4kWh of cooling will absorb that energy from the coolant or air and transfer it to the reactor (heating)." - Can you explain more, It is not clear for me. Do you mean it will effect the total output heat from battery?
I just tried to solve the coldness efficiency of system with two batteries and heat pump.
I'm missing some data, losses, temperatures and so on. If I consider that heat pump will have 300% COP and looses will be not more than 20% I got EER around 6-7.... What do you think? Possible?
Or even more if the looses will be lower and COP of heat pump higher?
@daniel, regarding the question about 1kWh heating and 0.4kWh cooling. You will get 1kWh of heating out of the salt no matter what. I was telling you about 0.4kWh that comes from the ambient air energy to explain where it comes from. If you are not using the cooling energy, your heat output is not affected.
COP for heating is about 1.5, losses depend on the specific construction. I can discuss that with the engineering team if you have any blueprints for a heat exchanger setup.
@liudasmikal thank you for explanation, again a bit closer with understanding...
but when I will tell somebody that the system is able to deliver more energy because it take some energy from ambient air, he may ask will be there some energy saving? (if the reactor will be inside and condenser outside of building and reactor in same room where it will release heat).
It is possible to say that the system will take energy from air when charging? Or when discharging?
I think that there will be energy saving, because the condenser will be colder and thermal energy laws will take action ...
You know, when somebody will claim that his products has more COP, in better scennarion peoples will became all specialist on thermal dynamics and will try to refute or some open mind will agree ...
@daniel great thoughts! You can say that the device will take energy from air when discharging. In the broad scale you are taking energy from air thus cooling the planet (even if that is not visible) so the laws of thermodynamics are respected.
In reality, the device will save you some energy but a lot depends on the construction. If the energy exchange is very difficult and the reactor and condenser have too much surface exchange, you will lose a lot of energy efficiency. But properly built it takes energy from air to release as heating.